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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  July 11, 2017 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today starting with what did he know? a bombshell new report, donald trump jr. was told before hand that the information he was getting was coming from the russian government. >> if there is a conspiracy to obtain foreign assistance, that's a crime. >> don jr. now lawyered up, congressional investigators looking for answers a the white house fires back hard. >> don jr. did not collude with anybody to influence the election. plus, an nbc news exclusive. the russian lawyer at the center of it all speaks to our keir simmons. >> have you ever worked for the russian government? do you have connections to the russian government? >> translator: no. >> we begin with donald trump jr., who just moments ago responded on twitter again with this -- media and dems are extremely invested in the russia story. if this nonsense meeting is all
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they have after a year, i understand the desperation. guess what? we have an incredible team of guests and correspondents with us to cover all the late-breaking details on this story that keeps on coming. straight to nbc's kristen welker at the white house. what new details are you learning about the meeting specifically and what's the white house saying about it? >> reporter: a lot of new details which donald trump jr. is pushing back against this morning, steph. "the new york times" revealing new information about that meeting that he had in june with a lawyer that "the times" says has links to the russian government. the sometimes reporting that before that meeting donald trump jr. was sent an e-mail, nched in an e-mail that the material, damaging material about hillary clinton, was part of a russian government effort to aid his father's candidacy. so this is significant because this is the first time that we are learning that someone within the trump campaign and trump world met with someone with
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knowledge of this russian government conspiracy. now, "the times" also points out that the e-mail did not detail a broader conspiracy within the russian government but merely that this damaging information was coming from effectively a goal within the russian government to try to bring down hillary clinton. donald trump jr. firing back through his newly appointed attorney, steph, saying this in a statement -- in my view, this is much ado about nothing. during this busy period robert goldstone contacted don jr. in an e-mail and suggested that people had information concerning alleged wrongdoing by democratic party front-runner hillary clinton in her dealings with russia. don jr.'s take away from this communication was that someone had information potentially help to feel the campaign and it was coming from someone he knew. don jr. had no knowledge as to what specific information, if any, would be discussed. his lawyer goes on to say no action was taken. then we got this, steph, from the spokesperson for president
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trump's personal attorney who says, "the president was not aware of and did not attend the meeting." adding to this cloud of controversy you have donald trump jr. really shifting his story about why he had that meeting in the first place. first he said it was because he thought they were going to discuss russian adoptions. then just a day later he changed his story when he was confronted by reporters for "the new york times" and acknowledged that, in fact, he did take the meeting because he thought it would reveal damaging information about his father's rival, hillary clinton. in the wake of all of this mounting calls on capitol hill for answers, including members of the senate intelligence committee asking donald trump jr. to testify and all of those who attended the meeting of course inclued jared kushner and paul manafort, who was then one of candidate trump's top campaign advisers, donald trump jr. saying he would be happy to comply. >> we'll be happy to hear what he has to say. msnbc analyst and former federal prosecutor paul butler.
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the author of "choke hold." and with us tom stooir, the founder and president of next gen climate. and two msnbc contributors, jason johnson politics ed dor at the joon root.com and bret steven a conservative columnist for "the new york times." paul, how troubling could this new report be not just for donald trump jr. but for jared kushner and paul manafort, who were part of the campaign? paul manafort knows how this works. >> it's a federal crime to solicit a contribution from a foreign national, a campaign contribution can be cash money or it could be anything of value, including opposition research, including dirt on hillary clinton. so when trump jr. says he went to this meeting knowing that this will foreign operative, this russian lawyer had goods or he thought he had goods on
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clinton, he's exposing himself to federal prosecution. it's not just trump jr. it's hard to believe that trump sr. didn't know about this meeting. look at what's going on. he's actively seeking information about hillary clinton. a month later he says if the russians have e-mails i'd sure like to see them. how does he not know that his sop, his son-in-law, and campaign manager go to a meeting with a russian about dirt on clinton? again, he's exposing -- the president himself is further implicated in collusion. >> someone who knew what went on in that meeting would be the lawyer who sat down with donald trump jr. i want to take you to moscow where nbc's keir simmons stands by. he just wrapped an exclusive interview with that russian lawyer who is at the center of this controversy. keir, what did she tell you? >> reporter: well, she tells an at times confusing and fascinating story of the way
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that she was -- she got a call. now, she was talking to people, friends, she says, acquaintances, telling them that she wanted to try to reach out to powerful people in the u.s. and saying that she had questions about particular act, u.s. legislation, and that she also maybe had some information about the clinton campaign. she says that then fast forward, she says she got a phone call from someone, she doesn't know who that was, telling her to come to trump tower. when she got there, she was met she says by a man she now knows to be a man called robert goldstone, a publicist. then she says he took her upstairs to meet with donald trump jr. and also in the room jared kushner and paul manafort. she didn't know at the time who they were and she says, for example, one of them spent most
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of the time just looking at his phone. she says that donald trump jr. took the meeting. it's an interesting insight into what it was hike. this is june 2016, to go and be involved in that kind of meeting. she says donald trump jr. took the meeting and that it finished until 20 or 30 minutes and that she was disappointed with the meeting. >> wow. >> that was the purpose of that meeting? >> translator: i never knew who else would be attending the meeting. all i knew that mr. donald trump jr. was willing to meet with me. i could recognize the young gentleman who was present in the meeting. the first seven to ten minutes. then he stood up and left the room. it was mr. jared kushner and he never came back, by the way. and the other individual who was at the same meeting was always looking at his phone. he was doing something. he never took active part in the
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conversation. that was mr. manafort. >> they had the impression, it appears, they were going to be told some information that you had about the dnc. how did they get that impression? >> translator: it's quite possible that maybe they were looking for such information. they wanted it so badly. >> have you ever worked for the russian government? do you have connections to the russian government? >> translator: no. >> reporter: so there you go. she says she does not have direct contact with the kremlin, that she was wasn't -- i asked her specifically, do you have direct contact, were you asked to go and do this, were you pushed to go and do this by russian government officials in any way and she says no, that that is not the case. >> all right. you can watch that full interview online. i have to get my panel to weigh in on this. tom, donald trump jr.'s lawyer says this -- much ado about nothing. >> not surprising he'd say that.
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the fact of the matter is i think this incident shows something incredibly profound about the trump administration and the trump family, which is there are no rules. if you think about it, they went to meet with a russian to try and conspire against the clinton campaign. they then lied about it. they then denied it. they then ultimately said it's absolutely unimportant and hired a mafia lawyer. what we see is two things -- a culture of deceit at every level, consistently, and secondly, a truly family oriented culture where you see not just his son but donald trump jr., his son-in-law, who's purported to be his main adviser in his campaign organizer. so when you see that, don't forget, this is the family where his daughter sat in for him at the g-20. >> i actually learned from someone within the trump administration it was president trump himself who was insistent
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upon having his daughter sit in for him at the g-20 meeting, his daughter who said a couple weeks ago, politics isn't my thing. when you're sitting between tree mame and angela merkel at the g-20, girlfriend, that's politics. why would someone like ted yoho say i'd take a meet like that? why would we hear a republican congressman put himself out there and say you got it, oppo research works for me. this ain't oppo research. >> this is or at least borders on collusion with a foreign government. the white house's defense seems to be, well, they didn't get anything out of it so it's okay, which is like saying we called the drug dealer but he was out of what we wanted so we couldn't obtain it. that's about the level of the defense. there's another angle i think is being missed here which is that this russian lawyer was attempting to influence the trump administration. her purpose was to get something
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called the magnitsky law repealed, overturned. >> one of few bipartisan things that's happened in the last few years. >> and one of the most important because russian agents and we think the russian government murdered a russian lawyer and whistle-blower who uncovered a $230 million embezzlement scheme. magnitsky law has been one of the most effective at putting russian corrupt officials, holding them to account. the fact is the russian governments believed that a trump presidency would be friendly to their interests. so you have to also reflect on what they were trying to get out of the meeting beyond the question of hacking the dnc or offering the trump administration damaging information about hillary clinton. >> that's not a surprise. you knew that's what russia would want. jason, to you, adam schiff just moments ago spoke on msnbc, whether or not he viewed this as collusion. take a look. we actually don't have the
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sound. but in your mind, whether we're going collusion or bordering on it, how do you view all this? >> i also go back to the source, which is this is coming from the white house. that's where they're getting this information. so somebody, somebody in this administration thinks this is as much of a problem or wants to put this all on trump's shoulders -- >> donald trump. >> donald trump jr.'s shoulders. i think in jep not only is it sort of an example of collusion, this shows that they were open to it. i mean, look, i've run campaign, lots of people watching have run campaigns. you are very careful about who you neat with when you are a member of a campaign staff. you don't just run around with anybody. it's hard to believe unless trump tower or some house of mirrors or fun house, all these people in and out, reince priebus shows up, everybody else shows up and nobody had a conversation with the now president of the united states about what was going on. this shows there was a level of collusion and discussion and these guys were willing to talk to anybody if they thought it would help them, which means our
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entire country is potentially at riting. >> the russian lawyer says they wanted the meeting so baldly, i.e. donald trump jr. or the trump campaign. they could say we wanted opposition research, wanted the dirt on hillary clinton. if they were to make that argument, what would you say from a legal perspective? >> i would say that attempting to solicit, attempted collusion is just as much of a crime as this substantive offense. so if you seek information from a foreign national, it doesn't matter whether you actually get that information. you're still implicated. so donald trump jr., he's got some explaining to do. robert muler is going to invite him for a nice little friendly chat with a couple of fbi agents and some prosecutors and he's got to decide whether he comes forward, whether he's fully forthcoming or whether he takes the fifth. so that's a serious issue for somebody who's the son of the president of the united states. >> tom, you have called for president trump's impeachment
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before and many have said you're getting way ahead of yourself, that's not going to happen. how much of a role do you think this can play? it is unique that president trump, a man who does not exhibit much restraint, has basically said nada about this except didn't know about it, wasn't there. >> look, the president's always obstructed justice. he fired the head of the fbi for pursuing the russian investigation. we saw the president leave meeting and suggest we should do a cyber security compact with russians to prevent hacking into elections. that shows a disregard for truth, a sort of leaving of reality with regard to russia. every single time russia comes up, we see this administration, this president, his family, and everyone around him lie, behave completely incongruously, and there is something there that is absolutely driving them to do
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things that make no sense for the american people. they have already obstructed justice. this shows a culture where there are absolutely no rules and the american people are at risk. the question is when are the republicans in congress and the senate going to say enough and realize that we're way past any kind of place where impeachment is relevant? >> that's the key question because, i mean, those republicans watching the show should ask themselves, what would they be saying if all the facts were the same that hillary clinton were president, and we know what they'd be saying because we have the experience of the clinton cashbook and the long history of republicans pursuing the clintons on account of their ethical transgressions. so it's not -- republicans should just ask themselves out of a sense of intellectual honesty, if you had a democratic president talking with russian agents or russian lawyers about finding incriminating evidence about a republican presidential candidate, a mitt romney or a
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john mccain, what would they say? >> we are out of time. well, it doesn't need to be partisan because robert muler is there and he's on the case. next, much more on donald trump jr.'s meeting with the russian lawyer. deputy assistant to the president, sebastian gyorko, joins me next. and the latest details on the horrific military plane crash in mississippi. at least 16 people have died. and why residents are being asked to stay clear of the area. it is still considered a danger zone. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.
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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. you're watching msnbc. one day after iraq's prime minister declared total victory over isis, clashes have erupted in mosul, a sign that the fight is still far, far from over. right now i'm joined by sebastian gorka, deputy assistant to the president. we'll get to mosul and the g-20, but i want to start with "the new york times" report that rob goldstone sent an e-mail to donald trump jr. before last june's meeting, making it clear that he was being offered damaging information about hillary clinton that was part of a russian government effort. what's your take on that? >> look, i think donald jr.'s statements stand for themselves, an individual who at the time had no connection to the russian government, requested a meeting under false pretenses. once the discussion began and this individual started to talk
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incoherently, the topic changed to the issue of russian adoptions, which was a very hot item under the obama administration, and at that point the meeting ended. and i think the very important thing is not just the statements from mr. trump jr. but the fact that after that meeting there was no other connection, no phone calls, no further meetings because this individual did not meet in good faith. donald trump jr. is not part of the administration and so this is a massive nothing burger. >> but paul manafort, whether or not don jr. is part of the administration, jared kushner absolutely is and paul manafort is well versed in this. earlier this morning exclusively nbc spoke to that russian lawyer who said donald trump jr. wanted this information, damaging information on hillary clinton very badly. is she lying? >> i have no idea. i never met the woman. i do know for a fact that democratic party operatives went
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to the ukrainian embassy to coordinate oppositional research and attack against our campaign. that's a story. that's not somebody meeting under false pretenses to talk about another issue. that is the democratic operatives meeting with representatives of another government, not people who say they're from another country, people from another government. >> hillary clinton didn't win the election. >> does that mean crimes aren't committed? this is what i find fascinating. >> if you want to make the argument that crimes were committed by democrats, then if donald trump jr. accepted a meeting like this and wanted this type of information from a -- with ties to a foreign government, would that also not be a crime? >> i'm talking about the fact that you had a presidential candidate for hillary clinton running for the highest office in this country and the most powerful office in the world when her husband was getting
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half a million dollars speaking fees from the russian government. not meetings with russian nationals. half a million dollars worth of payment from russia. >> two wrongs don't make a right. >> that's illegal. that's pay for play. that's pay for play. when you are having meetings with individuals who are giving you money and your wife is in control of the sale of 20% of -- can i finish? >> if -- >> 20% of america's uranium to russia, that's a story. let's talk about that. >> sir, that story, that uranium story, whatever in it you want to believe, are one of the reasons people did not want to vote for hillary clinton. but pay for play and those issues were issues that the trump campaign harked on so desperately. so why would paul manafort, jared kushner, donald trump jr. take a meeting like this? and by the way, if it was about opposition research, why would donald trump jr. not come clean with that on saturday and say this is how campaigns run? to give us this story about orr
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fans when two days later, yep, we wanted information on her. why? explain this to me, please. >> i think you should probably ask donald trump jr., but if i was in his position i would say very simply because that meeting was not organized in good faith, the person who requested it had an ulterior motive, not from the one they indicated, which is a standard one, collecting negative information on your political opponent. every party does that. but when it turns out she hasn't got any and she wants to talk about adoption, that's why this is a very, very complicated story and one in which the individual who requested the meeting is not acting in good faith. >> if she had the goods, would you feel better about it? >> it's standard political practice. you think the democratic party didn't collect -- >> sir, it is not standard political -- it is not standard political practice to seek information from a foreign government. >> would you like to talk about losul or continue talking about
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the nothing burger story? the hillary campaign collects dirt on bernie sanders. is that unusual? >> then why wouldn't donald trump jr. say that on saturday, number one? >> ask him. >> and it is not appropriate to do that with a foreign government. and if these meetings were standard practice, why wouldn't don share that information? why wouldn't jared kushner share that information? and as far as we've got jeff sessions, we've got mike flynn, none of whom shared information about meetings they had. why would whooi wouldn't they share that? that's what brings us back here. the reason we know about this is because jared didn't disclose the meeting. if it was such a nothing burger, put it on your forms. >> so number one, we have been in office for less than six months. in the first 125 days of this administration, there have been 126 leaks of national security information to the media.
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now, that's a story. that's illegal. that's felonious. but you want to talk about a nine-month campaign to talk about some -- >> do you think -- >> can i finish? can i finish? can i finish? may i fin senate judiciary committee. >> do you think people in the white house are leaking information? please. >> now that's a story. 126 haeks, seven times more, seven times more than the obama administration and seven times more than the bush administration. but in the last nine months you and your colleagues and the fake news media, cnn, msnbc, "new york times" -- >> no, sir. >> i'm going to finish. >> excuse me. you're welcome to join me -- >> -- managed to find one felonious piece of evidence. not one. in nine months. don't you think it's time the american people were served by the media justly and you get to national security issues like mosul? >> we're going to get to mosul in one minute. mr. gorka, if we should go after everyone within the administration leaking information, are you not concerned that jared kushner
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himself possibly even the president leaked information? >> so you know who leaked the information? do you have those identities? >> i'm asking you. >> no. i'm asking you. >> well, i can't answer that, sir. >> do you know? >> i know that there are people -- >> why are you making those statements? >> i know there are people within the white house who leak information on a regular basis. >> well, that's impressive. you know more than we do inside the white house a to who's doing the leaking. maybe you should talk to the authorities if you're in possession of felonious activity and leaking information. >> leakings information isn't necessarily felonious. >> if it's national security, it absolutely is. that's congressional data. 126 leaks of national security import. >> i didn't say that it was information regarding national security. but i do want to talk about the g-20 and you do as well. the kremlin says that president trump accepted vladimir putin's denial of election meddling. can you help me understand, is that the case? >> i'm not going to talk for the
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ch kremlin. i work for the president of the united states. you should ask the kremlin. >> according to the president of the united states, does the president believe after meeting with vladimir putin that russia did not try to med until tdle i election? >> we know what russia did and we know how they were involved in things that they've been doing for about 70 years, since the october revolution of 1917 in the united states. we're fully ware of that. we're also fully aware of russia's ties to the dnc and the persons who were close to the russian government or using russian tools were involved with taking john podesta's e-mails. we know all this. we pressed the president. we pressed him on multiple occasions in that meeting which lasted more than two hours on the issue of election meddling. when they denied it, we moved on because we were trying to save the lives of the people who are being threatened in syria. almost half a million people killed in the last six years.
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so we got down to brass tacks on what we could do. this is not a court of law. we're not prosecuting the kremlin at a g-20 meeting. it's a protocol event and we have very important things to talk about such as defeating isis. so the president did what had to be done. he called them out and then he moved on. >> rex tillerson said in the meeting sanctions were discussed and president trump said they were not. can you help us understand what happened? >> no, i'm not going to talk about the fine details of a closed meeting. >> that's not exactly a fine detail. that's a main point. >> well, you'd have to talk to rex tillerson. >> all right, then. let's move on. you do want to speak about mosul. what point did you want to make, sir? >> well, i think fact that we have the prime minister of iraq declare the liberation of mosul yesterday, that's real news, that's massive. remember that it was in june of 2014 that isis declared the
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so-called caliphate from mosul. this is the center of gravity of the jihadi movement. and thanks to our iraqi partners, thanks to u.s. forces that are assisting them, we've managed to crush the home of the caliphate. that's real news and that's good for all americans, for our partners, our muslim partners in the region. it's not the end of the story. it's the beginning. but it shows you what can be done in just 24 weeks. we went from an obama policy of attrition to one of annihilation under secretary mattis. >> and in 24 hours we're seeing fights break out again. given how fragile the government is in iraq, what needs to be done to prevent mosul from not attracting isis 2.0 or some other terror group because it could be a vacuum for them? what do we need to do there? what's the u.s.' role? >> so there are going to be continuing operations just as you had for days and days in berlin after the end of the war.
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so that's nothing new. you liberate a city and then up tactical mopping-up operations. what has to happen, great question, is at the end of the day, it's not just about kinetics, it's not just about body bags and killing terrorists, it's about a political resolution, which means the constituent elements of iraq have to come to the decision that they will work together as our founding fathers said, you must stick together or hang together. and i think it's a pretty easy argument to make that the future of you, your children, your grandchildren will not be served by further sectarian violence in iraq but by having iraq function. and thanks to the poregime and e victory yesterday we now have some hope in iraq. >> you said earlier this morning that you trust the u.s. military when you look at what's happened in iraq. why not trust the u.s. military in terms of afghanistan? a we're learning this report that steve bannon and possibly jared kushner are bringing in
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the likes of a steve feinberg, a hedge fund manager with no military experience, and eric prince from blackwater. why not trust the u.s. military in afghanistan? >> oh, we do. we trust them so much that we allow the local commander to on his own authority decide to drop a 21,000-pound bomb on a terrorist target in afghanistan. that's how much this president trusts the military. unlike his predecessor. when we look for alternatives to the disasters of the last eight years, when we denied the reality of the war, we have the white house in an unclassified memo saying there is no ideological component to this war, you are forbidden from mentioning the word jihad when doing training for your military, that's when you don't trust the military, under the obama regime. now we have -- >> the obama regime didn't bring in steve feinberg or eric prince. is the story wrong today? are they not being brought in?
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>> so are you saying that an american administration should not collect the widest opinions, the expertise -- >> i'm not making a statement. i'm asking a question. >> i'm asking you. do you have a problem with us talking to professionals in this area who've been there, seen it, done it? >> steve feinberg -- hold on a second. steve feinberg is not a military professional who spent time in afghanistan. >> let me finish. we have -- we have eight years of listening to wonks, okay? the wonks that brought the disastrous decisions to pull out of iraq, to say that we're winning, al qaeda is on the ropes. that's a fantasy land. that's alice in wonderland. we don't listen to the wonkery of the bubble anymore. we listen to practitioners and people who -- >> and how is steve feinberg a practitioner of military leadership in afghanistan? >> we listen to practitioners and we listen to people who have
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alternative suggestions to replace the disastrous policies of the obama administration that helped to create isis, the most dangerous jihadi group of the modern era. so if you'd like us to sit here and close the doors to the world, we're not going to do it because that would be irresponsible. >> well, given the geopolitical climate, we need lots of help. i don't think it is fair to say -- >> we're doing just fine. >> -- the obama administration is responsible for jihadists growing here. i don't really think that's -- >> we're doing very well. >> given all the work that needs to be done, yesterday president trump says he doesn't believe congress should go on break in august if we don't see a health care bill. i know health care isn't your thing, but given all the work ahead, what's the president's plan? i heard he'll be taking off almost all of august. >> what's his plan? to exert the pressure that every president has from the white house to try and get that commitment to a decision, because, remember, again,
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another catastrophe. thanks for raising it. obamacare. my premiums, i don't know about yours, but the people i talk to have seen them double, treble, have deductibles they literally can't afford to pay in cash. that's a real problem. >> so the president will be in the white house working for the month of august? >> the president, if you read his book, "the art of the deal," on average makes about 40 to 50 phone calls a day. he doesn't have to be sitting in the building behind me to exercise command, to exercise leadership. he can do that anywhere. he can do that from the deck of air force one. so it's not about locality. it's about leadership. and i think in the last 25 weeks you've seen that leadership from the southern border to nato, to warsaw, to the economy, to the stock market, we're crushing it, and he can be can do that from anywhere. >> all right. well, the white house doesn't crush a stock market, but i do appreciate your time. >> it's common phrase. it means winning. >> thanks for helping me with the common phrase for crushing it. appreciate it. >> any time.
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up next, the latest details on a devastating plane crash in mississippi leaves 16 people dead and the latest on what could have caused that devastating crash. at panera, a salad is so much more than one thing.
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overnight. investigators are trying to figure out why a military transport plane crashed in rural mississippi. the plane, a c-130, considered the workhorse of the u.s. military, it slammed into a soybean field and burst into flames immediately. all 16 people aboard are believed to have died. nbc's hans nicholls is following the story from the pentagon. hans, what happened? >> reporter: well, they don't know. there's one report that there may have been an engine failure, but a plane like this, it's got four engines, a turboprop, a kc-130, a refueling aircraft. as you said, it's a workhorse. these are planes that have flown thousands of hours with trained an seasoned pilots, a full crew. we do know where it originated from, cherry point, the marine air station in cherry point, north carolina. they're not giving a squadron details yet because they need to notify the next of kin. the investigation will continue and accelerate throughout the day, stephanie. we heard the president himself tweeting about this saying his condolences go out to those
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families as well as the vice president and the governor. very tragic but it bears repeating, this is very rare. >> very rare and very tragic. a quick break. next, donald trump jr.'s meeting with the russian lawyer, we'll get back to that with some top campaign officials there, how could the president not been aware of it? broke into a house owned by three bears. she ate some porridge, broke the baby bear's chair, and stole some jewelry, a flat-screen tv, and a laptop. luckily the geico insurance agency had helped the bears with homeowners insurance. they were able to replace all their items... ...including a new chair from crate and barrel. call geico and see how easy it is to switch and save on homeowners insurance. only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief.
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"the new york times" now reports donald trump jr. got an e-mail before a meeting with a
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kremlin-connected lawyer making it clear she was trying to help his father's campaign by offering damaging information on hillary clinton. former cia operative edward mcmullen and former cia analyst colonel anthony shafer. evan, should donald trump jr. have reported this meeting instead of taken it? >> of course he should have. one thing that's fascinating not getting enough information he was informed via e-mail this offer of information, compromising information, allegedly, on hillary clinton, had to do or was related to a russian government effort to help his father's campaign. that's a huge, huge deal. the idea he wouldn't have passed that on to his father, most importantly, certainly other members of the senior campaign team, we know that happened because eventually they were in the meeting, but just keep in mind the campaign was informed by trusted contacts that the russian government was trying to
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help -- trying to help them, trying to help donald trump. and keep in mind everything that came after that, all of trump's pro russia statements, pro-putin statements, came after they had been informed that the russian government was trying to help them. >> colonel, you supported president trump. they don't deny goldstone's e-mail made it clear the information was gathered by the russian government. does that concern you? >> two things, i'm an operative, not an analyst. >> excuse me. >> mr. mueller said something about the idea of taking a meeting, something we often have are something called walk-ins. out of every ten walk-in, one turns out to be correct. so the fact that all this information was shared behind the scenes is no big deal. this is a campaign, you want all information -- >> then why not report it?
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>> let me finish my answer. the second thing if it is something that's blackmailable, it goes both ways. if hillary clinton was subject to blackmail, you want to know that. so if, again, let me be clear, if that level is achieved, the information is actually what it is advertised to be, of course it's going to be shared. otherwise it's but one more piece of fluff in a number of events going on. you have to understand, i think you do, that during a campaign, there's thousands of things going on all the time. something to rise past the kind of daily just buzz you have to have something significant. i disagree with mr. mullen that it wasn't achieved. the meeting wasn't what it was advertised to be and therefore it was killed instantly and i don't think it went any further than that. >> let's just say this, i'm sorry, i know what you're talking about, sir, about walk-ins. when you're an intelligence officer, you take a walk-in. >> absolutely. >> when you're running a presidential campaign in the
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united states and a foreign adversary or a representative of a foreign adversary comes to you and says we are trying to help you win -- >> that was not -- >> please, oh my god. >> propaganda. drop the propaganda. >> that's not propaganda. >> that's not what the meeting was about. that was not what was in e-mail. >> do you deny that? >> i do. absolutely. >> you do? >> colonel. colonel. >> -- the fact there was any direct saying that a foreign power is coming forward. if you look at what was said, it said that there was information available potentially from a foreign source. that's what i'm saying. it was not confirmed that this was from the russian government. that's what you're trying to stipulate. >> donald trump jr. was informed that the russian government was trying to help the campaign and that they had an em sari who was offering compromising information. >> you don't know that. that was all hearsay. >> -- and didn't report it. >> stop. what was reported -- >> and after that they changed -- >> what was the reporting requirement? >> -- republican platform. donald trump tweets -- >> you're changing history, mr. mcmullen.
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>> give me a break. >> you're making stuff up. >> colonel, let's chemoit simple. >> sure. >> on saturday, why would donald trump jr. say i didn't know what it was, it was a meeting about orr fans and today it's a completely different story? why would he do that? >> it's not a different story. i've read what his lawyer said. he talks about who was in the meeting, what happened. >> i'm talking about donald trump jr. himself started on saturday, this was about orphans. why change the story? why wouldn't jared kushner have disclosed this meeting? why did five member of the campaign meeting after meeting not disclose? >> do you understand what goes on in a campaign and all the meeting that happen? >> do you understand what happens in a campaign? i'm sorry. >> this is not a normal campaign. this is not what happens in american campaigns, sir. >> yes, it is. >> you're doing a tremendous disservice to the american
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people suggesting otherwise. >> exactly what happens in campaigns. >> colonel -- sir -- >> i don't know what universe you live in. all information isn't taken during a cam pin. they want to know what it's going, especially if it's blackmailable. on. >> not from foreign adversaries. you contact the fbi and you report it in every other way possible. >> all right -- >> the fact that you didn't want to hear about that is fine. >> colonel, we'll leave it there. just because you have a lot of meetings doesn't mean you don't disclose all of them. that is your obligation. >> no, it's not. >> yes, sir, it is. >> no, it's not. there is no clearance involved. if you have a security clearance, yes. kushner did not have a clearance. >> it's an american duty. what is the matter with you? >> if something came up during an investigation, that's when it should come up during an investigation. >> my goodness. we've lost our way. >> you've lost your way. >> we're going to leave it there. gentlemen, thanks for your time. next, jared kushner tried to make a deal with a businessman
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and now donald trump takes a hard line against the country. is there a connection? david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ liz assumed all dressingsrust were made equal. assume nothing. just like the leading brands, these kraft dressings are made with high quality ingredients, at a price you can feel good about. no wonder kraft is so good. delicious pasta marinara. but birds eye made it from zucchini. mmm! bird: mashed potatoes and rice. but made from cauliflower. looks like i need a fork!
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million dollar before the deal stalled. that is the same nation that faces an ongoing block aid from middle eastern countries and the same nation that kushner reportedly lobbied for the u.s. to take a harder stance against. ryan grimm is one of the authors behind the article and joins me now. there is a lot here. break it down. >> in some ways it's quite simple. you know, the kushners and trump himself a real estate empire which means you will have conflict all over the world no matter where you go. now, when it comes to this particular one. the building on 66 fifth avenue is kind of a capstone of kushner companies and deeply under water. "new york times" reported relatively recently that kushner's entire $500 million investment into it has been basically wiped out. this was how he made his mark when he was like a 26-year-old brash real estate guy.
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he is now like a 30-year-old. so, four years later it is a complete. you know, it's a complete mess. so, he needs billions of dollars from around the world to prop this thing up or the company needs that money. they went to qatar for this money. the deal ultimately fizzled and now you have a situation where saudi arabia, the uae and other countries in the gulf with the united states' backing are isolating and block aiding qatar. so, you have to ask the question. what would have happened if this half billion dollar bailout had actually gone through and the money was flowing from doha to kushner company. we don't know but these are troubling and unprecedented questions that have never been asked of a white house before. >> qatar and the royal family. tom barrack a close friend and member of the campaign team is
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very closely tied to the royal family. at this point, is that real estate deal completely dead because from qatar's perspective things have been tough between the united states and qatar since president trump took office. >> nothing is ever dead in real estate and i think it would be very smart for political journalists to keep tracking this project because it still needs this financing. so, the question is where is it going to get it? it wouldn't surprise me if it came from somewhere like saudi arabia or the uae which is now on the other side of this conflict in the gulf. bloomberg reported several months ago that they, they also reached out to an insurance firm in china once that became public, the firm backed out and said there is this conflict and we don't want to get involved. we do have some reporting that some talks were under way with saudi arabia. so, maybe, maybe that's where this goes which gets incredibly
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naughty. you have an ongoing blockade right now reshaping the politics and the history of the middle east. right now as qatar can't get supplies from the areas where it's blockadede it's turning to turkey and it's resetting the political, why is it happening? >> what can be done, ryan. jared kushner can make the argument, i don't have ties with my family business any more. my brother-in-law is running it or and you seen the trump son smile and say we can have no conflicts of interest. >> rex tillerson could be given authority to actually try to solve this diplomatic crisis rather than having kushner intervene. you could have him recuse himself. >> you could have him recuse himself. we'll see if that happens. ryan, great reporting. i'm stephanie ruhle and i'll see you again at 11:00 a.m. with
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my friend ali velshi. you're in luck, still in new york city, hallie. >> with the russian lawyer at the center of that meeting with don jr. talking to our own keir simmons basically contradicting what we've heard so far from team trump. what she's saying about what went down with campaign officials. what don jr. is saying today about that overnight report he is told the meeting was an attempt by the russians to help his father's campaign. by the way, russia not the only big story we're following today. we're looking at the health care fight and protesters arrested on the hill and the bill still stalled and we'll talk to one of the republican senators who is a no now and what will get him to a yes? you'll find out later in the show. i want to get right to keir simmons who is in moscow who landed that exclusive scoop with this kremlin-linked lawyer who talked to don jr. keir, let's get right to it. what is she telling you and what
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have you learned? >> well, she, we had a long interview, a long conversation. i guess i think what i learned was that she was investigating a number of things and including talking here in moscow about having some information she thought she had about the clinton campaign. and that knowledge appears to have reached the trump campaign and that at some point there begins to have a point of having this meeting. certainly by her account she gets a phone call in which she is told to go to trump tower and there she is met by a publicist called robert goldstein and she's taken upstairs into the room where she is there

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